Woodworking Online

[Tom Banes]

Just about ready to break down, spend some $ and order a Lie-Nielsen 4
1/2 smoothing plane when I wandered across Clifton's web site. Price
is too close to matter much (LN = $300, Clifton $310) but all the
chatter here is on LN. Anyone used both, have an opinion?

Regards.

[David]

What about the "chatter" on the Veritas planes, Tom? Ever considered
ordering a beaut of a plane from Lee Valley?

Dave

Tom Banes wrote:

[Guest]

The fine woodworking May/June 2005 issue evaluated no. 4 metal
smoothing planes including L-N and Cliffton. The Clifton has a dished
sole that "made for erratic performance". They lapped the sole for 30
minutes and corrected it, but did not rate it as high as the L-N. L-N
and Veritas tied as Best Overall.

Having to lap the sole on a $250-$300 plane is totally unacceptable in
my book.

Personnally, I would spend my money on the Veritas. But then I place no
value in how "pretty" a plane is. If that's important, the L-N wins
hands down.

Bob

[David]

MAYBE a LN is prettier, but isn't a Veritas pretty ENOUGH? Even my wife
thinks my Veritas planes are tres cool. I'll check out their web site
to see what you mean about "pretty".

Dave

bluemax1811-newsgroups@yahoo.com wrote:

[David]

I just looked at LN. I fail to see the improvement in esthetics over a
Veritas. I looked at the LA Jack.

Dave

bluemax1811-newsgroups@yahoo.com wrote:

[Ron]

The question is do you know how to tune up a plane? If you don't and
don't want to bother to learn beyond a quick honeing of the blade the
only answer is Lie-Nielsen. The others mentioned will require a fair
amount of rework to get them into shape.

I've owned a couple of Veritas planes and they needed a lot of tuning
but worked well after they were tuned up. Personally, I feel they are
probably worth the money but I wouldn't buy another.

I have recently been in class with someone who tuned up a new Clifton
after giving up on another cheap plane. It also required some tuning
but worked very well afterwards. I seemed very well made and I would
consider buying one.

If you want to learn who to tune up a plane and get something decent
in the bargain I would look for a used older Stanley in fairly good
shape and learn how to tune it up. You will wind up with a very good
plane, gained a lot of useful knowledge and not have spent a lot of
money.

I currently have 4 or 5 different Lie-Nielson and 3 or 4 Older
Stanley's and have recently ordered a Steve Knight plane. Although I
got rid of my Veritas planes they would be a very acceptable
alternative. I have had an opportunity to try several others but I
haven't seen anything else worth the money (of course there are some
REALLY expensive planes I haven't seen that are probably very good).

Additionally your would have to take any plane purchase decision on a
case by case basis as I'm sure LN, Veritas and Clifton all have some
models better then others. I can only go by my experience for what I
have owned and directly had experience using. Others my have a
different experience.


On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:59:28 -0500, Tom Banes
<xleanone@nospam.mail.airmail.net> wrote:

[Patriarch]

bluemax1811-newsgroups@yahoo.com wrote in news:1119496248.463238.81580
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

<snip>

[Jeff Gorman]

<Ron> wrote

[Andy Dingley]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:59:28 -0500, Tom Banes
<xleanone@nospam.mail.airmail.net> wrote:

[Never Enough Money]

Lie-Niesen 4 1/2 is better than the Veritas, although Veritas has some
excellent planes.

For example, the Veritas Edge Trimming Block plane is better than the
LN one.

[AAvK]

[Mike in Mystic]

I have a Clifton #6 (fore plane) that I really like, but probably wouldn't
have bought it if it weren't for the Woodcraft liquidation sale awhile ago
(got it for $175).

I also have several Lie-Nielsen planes including the 4 1/2, low-angle jack
and a couple specialty ones. I don't own a Veritas bench plane, but have
their LA block plane and several other tools made by them. I also have many
old Stanley planes, and 2 Steven Knight woodies. Planes are good :)

At any rate, the fit and finish of the clifton plane is very nice, but is
just a little lower in quality than the Lie-Nielsen. My particular #6 had a
very flat sole and was machined extremely well, but the adjuster has just
enough backlash (relative to the Lie-Nielsen) to be noticeable. The
Lie-Nielsen is definitely the way to go, even when compared to the Veritas
(for the 4.5 at any rate).

Mike

"Tom Banes" <xleanone@nospam.mail.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:l39kb19m46f5fu789fndgv6rvbdi32sbh8@4ax.com...

[Joseph Crowe]

Hi Andy, Tom, et al,
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Andy Dingley wrote:

[Tom Banes]

Lost the one I was reading, but here's another.
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/clifton.htm

Regards.


On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:49:31 -0700, "AAvK" <ahem@notquite.net> wrote:

[Tom Banes]

Many thanks to all for the feedback. I hadn't even considered an LV
plane, so it's back to the drawing board! The seemingly random quality
of Clifton is not what I'm looking for.

In response to a couple of questions, I've tuned up several old
Stanley bench planes (#3, #5, # and a small Stanley block plane (9
1/2) that I scarffed up on Ebay when no one was looking. A bit of
electrolysis, a bunch of lapping, even more iron fixing and honing
(why do folks WANT to cut nails with a plane?), and they all perform
to my satisfaction. I have an LN scrub plane that is great, though a
pain to hone, and an LN rabbet plane that I'm still learning to use
(not many rabbets will sit still long enough to shave!). So I'm no
expert, just ham fisted learner.

I do appreciate the input as the best learning is:

1. Personal experience
2. Others' personal experience

and I haven't had time to learn everything about being a woodie, not
by a long shot.

Regards.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:59:28 -0500, Tom Banes
<xleanone@nospam.mail.airmail.net> wrote: