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jester
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 Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:13 am Post subject: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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Doing my home work on a framing nailer I have seen a lot of things about
the "change over" to FRH (full round head) nailers for framing in many
parts of the US... I'm wondering if anyone has any info about the codes
and potential changes here in upstate NY (Rochester area).
Seem like most of the areas in the US that now require FRH nails are in
the quake and hurricane zones. Any info would be appreciated. |
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Charlie Self
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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jester asks:
| Quote: |
Doing my home work on a framing nailer I have seen a lot of things about
the "change over" to FRH (full round head) nailers for framing in many
parts of the US... I'm wondering if anyone has any info about the codes
and potential changes here in upstate NY (Rochester area).
Seem like most of the areas in the US that now require FRH nails are in
the quake and hurricane zones. Any info would be appreciated.
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Call the building inspector's office in the morning. They'll know and it won't
be opinion.
Charlie Self
"Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html |
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Paul Franklin
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:13:39 GMT, jester
<jester@rochester.REMOVE.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Doing my home work on a framing nailer I have seen a lot of things about
the "change over" to FRH (full round head) nailers for framing in many
parts of the US... I'm wondering if anyone has any info about the codes
and potential changes here in upstate NY (Rochester area).
Seem like most of the areas in the US that now require FRH nails are in
the quake and hurricane zones. Any info would be appreciated.
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Just look at your local lumber yard and see what kind of nails they
stock. I planned to buy an FRH, but no one in the area stocks
anything but clipped head nails. Sure they can get them in a day or
two, but knowing my tendency to run out of stuff at inopportune times,
I decided not to swim upstream.
Paul |
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Tim Douglass
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:13:39 GMT, jester
<jester@rochester.REMOVE.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Doing my home work on a framing nailer I have seen a lot of things about
the "change over" to FRH (full round head) nailers for framing in many
parts of the US... I'm wondering if anyone has any info about the codes
and potential changes here in upstate NY (Rochester area).
Seem like most of the areas in the US that now require FRH nails are in
the quake and hurricane zones. Any info would be appreciated.
|
No one restricts the use of FRH, so if you go that way you are covered
regardless of what the code does in the future. Besides, they hold
measurably better.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com |
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bitternut
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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I live in your area and I bought the Porter Cable full head framing nailer.
Almost all the nails that I see are the full head nails. The big box stores
seem to have mostly full head nails also. For my money I would just as soon
get all the holding power possible. Get full head and you won't have to
wonder if they are code approved.
"jester" <jester@rochester.REMOVE.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7FS_b.49144$um1.42821@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| Quote: |
Doing my home work on a framing nailer I have seen a lot of things about
the "change over" to FRH (full round head) nailers for framing in many
parts of the US... I'm wondering if anyone has any info about the codes
and potential changes here in upstate NY (Rochester area).
Seem like most of the areas in the US that now require FRH nails are in
the quake and hurricane zones. Any info would be appreciated. |
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Stephen M
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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I did my addition with a Clipped head PC nailer.
I visited "bob" the inspector and he did not care... The advantage of the
clipped head is that you get more "rounds" in the magazine. Therefore: fewer
reloads.
Personally, I don't think that the heads are the limitting factor on the
holding power of a nail in most if not all cases. Just opinion, not
substantiated fact.
FWIW, I live in (further) upstate NY (Champlain).
-S
"jester" <jester@rochester.REMOVE.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7FS_b.49144$um1.42821@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| Quote: |
Doing my home work on a framing nailer I have seen a lot of things about
the "change over" to FRH (full round head) nailers for framing in many
parts of the US... I'm wondering if anyone has any info about the codes
and potential changes here in upstate NY (Rochester area).
Seem like most of the areas in the US that now require FRH nails are in
the quake and hurricane zones. Any info would be appreciated. |
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Young_carpenter
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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I live in C. NY and I don't think I have heard anything limiting the one or
the other. Personally I prefer full heads because they are less likely to
go all the way through if you have the pressure cranked up and hit a soft
section. Full heads are better for sheathing to because they are less
likely to sink all the way through.
--
"jester" <jester@rochester.REMOVE.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7FS_b.49144$um1.42821@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| Quote: |
Doing my home work on a framing nailer I have seen a lot of things about
the "change over" to FRH (full round head) nailers for framing in many
parts of the US... I'm wondering if anyone has any info about the codes
and potential changes here in upstate NY (Rochester area).
Seem like most of the areas in the US that now require FRH nails are in
the quake and hurricane zones. Any info would be appreciated. |
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Lawrence A. Ramsey
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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Some cities (state?) prohibit the use of clipped head nails. It is
safer to use the ful head type nails rather than risk using clipped
head nails in my opinion.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:27:23 -0500, "Young_carpenter"
<Fiddleroffroof@juno.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I live in C. NY and I don't think I have heard anything limiting the one or
the other. Personally I prefer full heads because they are less likely to
go all the way through if you have the pressure cranked up and hit a soft
section. Full heads are better for sheathing to because they are less
likely to sink all the way through. |
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p_j
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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Tim Douglass <tdouglass@bendcable.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
No one restricts the use of FRH, so if you go that way you are covered
regardless of what the code does in the future. Besides, they hold
measurably better.
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I hear that, but I've never seen any evidence of it.
Anecdotally, I've demolished some stuff that was built with clipped head
and it was very tough going. They were ring shank and probably rosin
coated and areas where plywood was attached literally tore around the
nails.
A lot would depend on whether it is a homeowner who is going to work on
his house/garage/shed or someone who might work construction. |
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Ron
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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jester <jester@rochester.REMOVE.rr.com> wrote in message news:<7FS_b.49144$um1.42821@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
| Quote: |
Doing my home work on a framing nailer I have seen a lot of things about
the "change over" to FRH (full round head) nailers for framing in many
parts of the US... I'm wondering if anyone has any info about the codes
and potential changes here in upstate NY (Rochester area).
Seem like most of the areas in the US that now require FRH nails are in
the quake and hurricane zones. Any info would be appreciated.
|
Jester,
I live in Fairport (outside Rochester) and I bought the clipped head
nail gun. I had originally bought the full head but wasn't satisfied
with the changing clips so constantly. I checked with a contractor I
play golf with and he does all his jobs with clipped heads and
recommended that one. My deck passed inspection without a problem so
clipped head was fine for me.
-Ron |
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Tim Douglass
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 06:25:18 -0600, p_j@postzzzmark.net (p_j) wrote:
| Quote: |
Tim Douglass <tdouglass@bendcable.com> wrote:
No one restricts the use of FRH, so if you go that way you are covered
regardless of what the code does in the future. Besides, they hold
measurably better.
I hear that, but I've never seen any evidence of it.
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The test results are probably available on the web somewhere. IIRC it
was after one of the big east coast hurricanes that they did a bunch
of testing in FL to determine if the use of clipped head nails was a
factor in so many houses coming apart (putting aside totally
incompetent construction). The results showed that, while shank
friction is the largest factor (it is the *only* thing holding in the
second piece of wood) the full head nails held ply and flakeboard
materials much better.
| Quote: |
Anecdotally, I've demolished some stuff that was built with clipped head
and it was very tough going. They were ring shank and probably rosin
coated and areas where plywood was attached literally tore around the
nails.
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Ringshank, coated or galvanized nails are a completely different
story. Note that the plywood tearing around the nails isn't
necessarily good - one of the factors is that a larger nail head
spreads the load better and reduces tear through.
A more significant, but often overlooked, factor is the amount of
force with which the nails are driven. When we had my garage
(hopefully soon to be shop) built one of the guys nailing off the
sheathing had his gun set to drive the nail heads below the surface.
The inspector made them re-nail those panels because the holding power
of the *wood* is seriously compromised when the nail is countersunk.
| Quote: |
A lot would depend on whether it is a homeowner who is going to work on
his house/garage/shed or someone who might work construction.
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I would still go with the full head, just because you *know* they will
pass any code or inspection.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com |
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Joe Willmann
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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p_j@postzzzmark.net (p_j) wrote in news:1g9pq35.3n43s71puqoweN%
p_j@postzzzmark.net:
| Quote: |
Tim Douglass <tdouglass@bendcable.com> wrote:
No one restricts the use of FRH, so if you go that way you are
covered
regardless of what the code does in the future. Besides, they hold
measurably better.
I hear that, but I've never seen any evidence of it.
Anecdotally, I've demolished some stuff that was built with clipped
head
and it was very tough going. They were ring shank and probably rosin
coated and areas where plywood was attached literally tore around the
nails.
A lot would depend on whether it is a homeowner who is going to work
on
his house/garage/shed or someone who might work construction.
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It is true in Portland OR. I went looking for an air nailer. I asked
around and was informed by several people that clipped heads are against
codes around here and you pass inspections. I have a friend that bought
one anyway because he never has an inspection done. I would pay the
extra bucks. |
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dean b
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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It's unlikely that full round heads will required around my area for
several years to come. Nonetheless I bought one because I need to do
some fence work and I think the full round heads look nicer. The nails
won't hold any worse and are the same price as the clipped head.
Dean
In article <4s7r30h9d8espfcrm3v0i1trsccg6pvb1d@4ax.com>,
Lawrence A. Ramsey <lramsey@cox-internet.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Some cities (state?) prohibit the use of clipped head nails. It is
safer to use the ful head type nails rather than risk using clipped
head nails in my opinion. |
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p_j
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Clipped Head or FRH frame nailers (upstate NY) |
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Tim Douglass <tdouglass@bendcable.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
No one restricts the use of FRH, so if you go that way you are covered
regardless of what the code does in the future. Besides, they hold
measurably better.
I hear that, but I've never seen any evidence of it.
The test results are probably available on the web somewhere. IIRC it
was after one of the big east coast hurricanes that they did a bunch
of testing in FL
|
You know, there may be, but having watched the conversation a bunch of
times, nobody ever comes up with anything.
| Quote: |
Anecdotally, I've demolished some stuff that was built with clipped head
and it was very tough going. They were ring shank and probably rosin
coated and areas where plywood was attached literally tore around the
nails.
Ringshank, coated or galvanized nails are a completely different
story. Note that the plywood tearing around the nails isn't
necessarily good - one of the factors is that a larger nail head
spreads the load better and reduces tear through.
|
I was tearing it off. I suspect the full head would have been better for
demoing because I could have gotten a hold of the head better.
| Quote: |
A more significant, but often overlooked, factor is the amount of
force with which the nails are driven. When we had my garage
(hopefully soon to be shop) built one of the guys nailing off the
sheathing had his gun set to drive the nail heads below the surface.
The inspector made them re-nail those panels because the holding power
of the *wood* is seriously compromised when the nail is countersunk.
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And firing multiple nails in a spot weakens as well.
| Quote: |
A lot would depend on whether it is a homeowner who is going to work on
his house/garage/shed or someone who might work construction.
I would still go with the full head, just because you *know* they will
pass any code or inspection.
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If I were buying one today I suppose I would too. I've got an old
clipped head and I never use it any more.
I am just not convinced that the holding power difference is a reality,
but the concept definitely is and there really isn't much of a price
difference. |
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